RoIO Review

Echoes of Thunder, September 9, 1987

by Sean Zloch and Gerhard den Hollander

Sean: Welcome to the 100% Waters-free RoIO Review. This time around we will be reviewing the "Echoes of Thunder" show from 9/9/87. Recorded in Lansdowne Park in Ottawa, Canada, it is the debut show of the Gilmour-led Floyd. The show was sourced from vinyl RoIO of an excellent sounding audience recording, only slightly ruined by an over-obnoxious crowd and the ever-present surface noise. The sound quality is nowhere near as pristine as Delicate Sound of Thunder, but the show remains a siginificant historical document. Hopefully, someone who has the original tapes (or a low-gen copy) will master them onto CD and share them with the rest of us.

Gerhard: While that would be a help, the crowd is unfortunately a major drawback on this release. I normally don't care too much for crowd noise (and on some shows, like the Crystal Garden show from '71 it can be entertaining) but on this one it does distract attention from the show itself.

Sean: I disagree. If the performance is truly magical enough, it will transcend any audience intrusion. I think there are some truly magical moments here that transcend the audience's interruption. Though the crowd was irritating, I did eventually tune it out.

1987 was an important year for Pink Floyd. The group's rebirth was anything but easy. I imagine that the group was under a LOT of pressure for the album (A Momentary Lapse of Reason) and the tour to succeed (and succeed the tour did, carrying on until 1990!). Out of the three years and countless recordings from the World Tour, I prefer the shows from the first few gigs of the tour as the setlist included "Echoes" and "Welcome to the Machine". "Echoes" was dropped for "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" and "Welcome to the Machine" was dropped due to legal pressure from Waters. Not only was this the group's first show without Waters, it was their first show in six years.

Gerhard: Sorry Sean, but according to the bible (that's In the Flesh, the excellent book by Ian Russell and Glenn Povey) they did perform "Welcome to the Machine" on all shows (and I've got a bunch of tapes that proves they did ;) ).

Waters did prevent inclusion of "Welcome to the Machine" on the Delicate Sound of Thunder video (as he owned the rights to the visuals) and Dave didn't want to include it on the audio version as it was too close to the studio version.

Sean: Ah... that's right! Shame on me! It goes to show you how rusty I am getting with my Floyd history (I really need to pick up that book, by the way). ;) I gotta admit that I haven't played a lot of my '87 RoIOs in a long time.

The show starts off with "Echoes," which IMHO would make for a better finale than opening track. On this recording the very beginning of the song is missing (the disk starts right before the vocals). The song is a bit more up tempo since the last time it was performed, with the first two verses grouped together. This may have to qualify as one of the all-time great performances of "Echoes" as the band pours so much power into it. Guy Pratt's bass playing during the "funky" section far outshines any version Roger ever played with the group and Nick's drumming hasn't been this great in a LONG time.

Gerhard: Now I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that there's some excellent double drumming going on during that song. It's not just Nick, but also monkey boy Gary Wallis, who's providing excellent fills and additional percussion.

And before I get heated letters of complaint, the term 'Monkey Boy' is not used in a derogatory fashion here, but is merely to indicate the difference in behavior between the two drummers on this tour. Nick Mason, laid back and always drumming slightly behind the beat, looking like absolutely nothing can shock him (the prototypical Englishman), versus Gary Wallis, who is (it seems) continuously jumping around and banging the drums like monkeys do.

Sean: I thought it was Scott Page who was called 'Monkey Boy'. Man, I told you I was going rusty. The mind IS the first thing that goes!

Gerhard: And with that we've drifted far from the task at hand.

Sean: Who, us? :)

Gerhard: So back to "Echoes"... Easily the highlight of this 2-disk set, and almost completely ruined by the audience noise ;( ...

Sean: Conspicuous by its absence is Rick's trademark "ping", but that doesn't take way from this song in the least. Too bad the crowd doesn't agree as they keep on talking, yelling and whistling during the whole song, especially the "albatross" section in the middle. In short, "Echoes" ROCKS! Pick any of the classic "vintage" performances of "Echoes" and compare them to this version and it easily stands its ground. I imagine the lack of audience interest was instrumental to Gilmour's dropping the song from the setlist.

Gerhard: I agree with you that it's probably the lack of audience response that made Gilmour decide to drop "Echoes" off the playlist (and not, as Nick later suggested in an interview, because he felt silly singing about albatrosses). But I do not agree that this version lives up to the really great "Echoes" performances of yesteryear. "Echoes" rocks, true, and I don't think the band has ever done a bad "Echoes", but this version would not appear in my list of 20 favorite "Echoes" performances. It does, however, feature prominently in my list of "Echoes" performances any real Floyd fan should have heard at least once.

Sean: Which is to say that it holds it own along side the classics. Of course, like you said, any "Echoes" is a good "Echoes".

Gerhard: And that alone makes this RoIO required listening for any Floyd fan.

Sean: The rest of the first set is dedicated to A Momentary Lapse of Reason, kicking off with a perfect note-for-note version of "Signs of Life" which segues into "Learning to Fly". I have to say that I prefer the live arrangement of "Learning to Fly" with the extended intro and outro. Unfortunately this version shows no 'signs of life', as the performance is just plain uninspired. For a much better version of "Learning to Fly" from this tour check out the Prism RoIO (JFK Stadium, 19sep87).

"A New Machine 1" I could do without. I always skip this one of the studio album. I always skip this one on any RoIOs I listen to. "Terminal Frost", however, has to be one of the most under-rated songs in the Floyd library. It's Floyd doing what it does best: creating a sense of atmosphere musically. I especially enjoy Scott Page's sax work on this version. He's an excellent player. After "Echoes", the show takes a nosedive, performance wise. "Terminal Frost" is the point in the show where the performance REALLY picks up. As for "A New Machine 2" -- see my comments on "A New Machine 1".

Gerhard: I kind of dig these 3 songs, and while I agree that "A New Machine" is sorely lacking in many respects, if you consider them as brackets around "Terminal Frost", and see the three tunes as one whole, they are essential (and having just endured "A New Machine 1" makes you appreciate "Terminal Frost" even more.

I guess it's no big secret I'm not fond of the latter day Floyd incarnation.

Sean: Nor am I, which makes us the logical choice for this review! ;)

Gerhard: I was rather deeply disappointed with A Momentary Lapse Of Reason, but I have to say that these songs have gotten a new life and shine in their live versions.

Sean: While not a big fan of the post-Waters Floyd, I really like most of the songs on A Momentary Lapse Of Reason. I think the live versions add another layer to them much in the way that the live performances of the older music (Meddle, Atom Heart Mother) augmented those songs.

Gerhard: On the first shows of the tour this isn't really clear, but the later RoIOs show that those songs aren't that bad.

Sean: I disagree. As I said before, I think some of the new stuff shines here as well. It's the older material that actually sounds flat.

Gerhard: As it is on this early live performance, the highlights for me are the above triplet, the solo at the end of "On the Turning Away", and the opening bit of "Sorrow".

Sean: I've never been too particularly fond of "Sorrow", especially the guitar intro, but in typical Floyd fashion the live version far surpasses the original studio track. The music has a funkier vibe to it and Dave's guitar solo is just further proof why he deserves every bit of praise his guitar playing has ever received.

The show carries on with "Dogs of War"-- an excellent performance of an average song. Nick's drumming perfectly punctuates Dave's vocals, and Scott Page gives yet another excellent sax solo. Next up is "Yet Another Movie/Round and Around". I think "Yet Another Movie" comes across better on the studio version than on the live one.

At this point, the crowd is getting restless with all of the new material. Dave finally speaks for the first time during the show. He thanks the audience for coming and says that the band was going to play some songs that they would be "slightly more familiar with" after the break.

The first set ends with "On the Turning Away", which is right up there with the best songs that Floyd ever did. Yet again, the live version blows the studio version away, with Dave and Rick kicking all known forms of ass.

Gerhard: Well, saying "On The Turning Away" is right up there with, say, "Set The Controls", "Careful", "Dogs", "Comfortably Numb", or "One of these Days" (to name just a few) is a bit of an exaggeration in my book.

Sean: I truly believe that "On The Turning Away" is the finest song Dave did without Roger.

Gerhard: Also, according to the various interviews Dave gave before and during the 1994 tours he said that during the first couple of months most of the drumming was Gary's and most of the keyboards were Jon's ...

Sean: True, although without having a video of the show, it's hard to say who's playing what here.

Disc two kicks off with "One of These Days". Guy Pratt starts off by just noodling on the bass for a minute to tease the crowd before he kicks off into the opening riff. The crowd immediately responds as they are yelling and clapping along. Whereas "Echoes" (earlier in the show) holds it's own against some of the "classic" performances of it, "One of These Days" doesn't sound as good to me. There is some nice guitar in the middle section, but overall the performance isn't all that good. I have heard better performances both earlier and later in the Floyd's career.

Gerhard: Yeah, but the crowd digs it.

You can clearly hear the band isn't really in shape yet. They need to get a feel for each other.

I don't know how many full rehearsals they did, but not much. Compare the performance here, with the farewell performance they did in Knebworth.

Sean: "Time" is also sort of ho-hum. The percussion in the opening of the song isn't all that very good. I may need to re-listen to it a few more times, but my first impression is that the performance sounds very tired, and it's only the opening night of the tour! So far there seems to be more enthusiasm in the new material than the older stuff, which makes sense as they had just finished recording A Momentary Lapse of Reason, whereas they hadn't played the "classics" for years.

Gerhard: And they needed to work out how to perform the old stuff (which was usually performed with a 4- or 5-man band) with the large band they have now.

Sean: This is a good point. They certainly seem to have the arrangements down later in the tour.

"Welcome to the Machine" is well done. I think their version is superior to Roger's (Sorry Rog). The arrangement is a dead-on copy of the original studio version (actually, most of the second set is pretty much played like on the records).

Gerhard: "Welcome to the Machine" is a pretty straight copy, the reason it is so warmly received is partially due to the great Scarfe animation (which was Roger's stick to prevent it from ending up on the Delicate Sound of Thunder video).

Sean: Also, the '87 lineup captures the sound of the '77 line up perfectly. The Animals tour is one of my favorites, especially the Wish You Were Here set.

Gerhard: And therefore it's a pity that they decided not to include any of the Animals tracks on this tour.

It would be very nice to compare "Dogs" performed by the Dave Gilmour band with the "Dogs" from the Roger Waters band .

Sean: The performance really picks up with an excellent "Us and Them". This is one song I never grow tired of.

Gerhard: Funny, "Money" and "Us and Them" are the two tracks I usually skip on pretty much any live Floyd since 1972. I guess I've just heard them way too much.

Sean: I think Scott Page does a great job on the sax. A lot of the complaints about Page are usually visual (his jumping around the stage), however when you have the just the audio, you find out why he's was picked to join the band. He really can play! I really like the interaction between Dave's guitar and Scott Page's sax during the third verse. So far this is the best song on this disc.

And now..."MONEY"! ;) If there is one song by Floyd that I do skip past (on the radio, CD, whatever), it is "Money". I didn't skip past it here, however. The band plays it with a lot of energy and the song is truly enjoyable. One of the best versions that I have heard. Surprisingly, even the 'woo-woo's don't detract from my overall enjoyment of the song. The only part I don't like is all the meandering solos in the middle, but still this version surpasses all other performances of the song. I even found myself singing along!!

"Money" segues into another crowd favorite, "Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2". On this tour, they used the intro from the single to open the song. (I prefer the arrangement they used on the '94 tour.) I have to say that overall I prefer Roger playing this song solo to the Floyd, however Floyd has one thing Roger doesn't... Dave's guitar playing. His solo at the end makes the song worthwhile. I truly believe that he is one of the all time guitar greats, and he proves it a few times during this show.

"Comfortably Numb" finished off the second set. I gotta admit that I have never liked any live version of this song after 1981. I don't like Roger's version without Dave's vocals or, more importantly, without his guitar playing. Conversely, I don't like the way that the vocals are arranged in this version. If I had to pick one over the other, I'd have to give the nod to Dave and the Floyd.

Gerhard: Well, different strokes for different folks. The one thing that makes "Comfortably Numb" is the way Roger handles the vocals (the 'good' bit, for example).

However, Dave's solo is (as usual) brilliant, and makes this version, especially when seeing them live, and actually being there, this is what everyone has been waiting for.

On a recording, the solo doesn't make the same impression.

Sean: When I saw Pink Floyd in '94, the solo in "Comfortably Numb" was definitely a magical moment to me. I thought it was going to carry on into infinity. A definite "had to be there" moment. I disagree however about the power being lost on the RoIO. I feel the beauty of Dave's playing comes through fine. No matter how bad the sound quality, THAT kind of playing always shines through.

Gerhard: Maybe I wasn't clear. "Comfortably Numb" live (the solo at the end, at least) was magnificent, awe-inspiring, and impressively impressive. When I later listened back to the tapes of that show, the solo was merely really good. The magic of being there doesn't translate well to tape (and of course, on tape you miss the gigantic mirror ball and all the other extras ).

Sean: To me, best part of "Comfortably Numb" (aside from the great lyrics) is the guitar soloing, especially at the end of the song. I think Dave does his best guitar playing during the solos for "Comfortably Numb" and this show is no exception. The version here seems relatively short in comparison with other shows, but Dave's playing is great nonetheless.

The encore starts of with "One Slip", another one of my favorites from A Momentary Lapse of Reason. As I've said before, with only a couple exceptions (the single, "Learning To Fly", ironically enough), the Floyd pour everything into the new material. This version is a lot funkier than the studio version, with Guy Pratt taking a great bass solo.

Dave thanks the crowd for coming to their first show in a long time and kicks off "Run Like Hell". The band is having a good time and it shows. The song is energetic. The vocals are playful (listen to Dave sing the line "And the cockleshell shatters") and Rick's keyboards after the second verse rock!

All in all this show is great not only as a historical document, but it also worth listening to repeatedly. I think this show really showcases the then-new material very well and truly shows that Floyd wasn't entirely a "spent force creatively". If you know someone who is a naysayer of the Gilmour-led Floyd, play them this show. It may change their opinion.

Gerhard: Or it may not. At any rate, this album is recommended listening for any Floyd fan, and is required listening for any serious collector... if only for the "Echoes" opener.

Sean Zloch and Gerhard den Hollander are staff writers for Spare Bricks.

The Camera Eye

Pink Floyd 1987-1994 From the Lens of the Amateur to the Professional

By Ron Fleischer & Richard Mahon

NOTE: The following concert videos are being graded as a guide to documenting the live performance history of Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. Past video reviews are posted at the following site - http://web.tampabay.rr.com/richm/sbarchive.htm

With the release of A Momentary Lapse Of Reason, 1987 found Pink Floyd embarking on their first major world tour in ten years. In the past, collectors who sought live concert footage had to settle for 8mm or Super 8 film footage, since the home video boom had yet to arrive. The film footage was usually limited in various ways: many cameras did not incorporate sound with the visuals, and film cartridges had a limited capacity to shoot only between 3 to 5 minutes of film per roll, hardly enough to cover the average Floyd song.

But for this tour, a virtual army of amateur home video renegades sneaked cameras into show after show, documenting virtually every stop on the tour. The quality of these shows ranged from the ridiculous (one Italian show was shot from the back of a huge outdoor stadium without the aide of a zoom lens, leaving very little for the viewer to see aside from a sea of heads) to the sublime (the awesome Madison Square Garden shows in October of 1987, which we'll get to in a bit).

This was also before the Internet connected us all worldwide, so one had to pursue other options in order to obtain tapes. Goldmine magazine was a great place to make contacts and find video as well as audio tapes, and local record swaps boldly sold a wide variety of shows, with the best of the batch eventually weeding out the poorer quality shows.

Pink Floyd put on a visually dazzling show and it often took the right camera angles to take advantage of capturing all the sights. The lasers and stage droids always came across more vibrantly when shot from a straight-on view, while the cameras that were off to one side of the stage had better potential close-ups.

The best of these videos were the Madison Square Garden, New York shows. In fact, two of those gigs were videotaped by the same camera guy from virtually the same seat. The show on October 5, 1987 was a close, tight, left corner shot. While this video is one of the best from the tour, it afforded him the opportunity to prepare for the second show on October 7, 1987. At this show he pretty much knew what was going to happen and always had the camera focusing in on the right thing at the right time. The laser effects didn't fair too well, due to the extreme side view, but the tight shots of Gilmour and company were staggering!

The Auburn Hills, Michigan show on August 18, 1988 made for another great home video. This one was shot from dead center, straight back in one of the front balcony rows. Unfortunately, the tape starts at "Welcome To the Machine," but the effects and screen shots were awesome.

Other videos of note from the 1987-89 tour include:

Tour Rehearsals, Toronto, Canada - September 1987 - 56 minutes of professionally shot footage includes excerpts from the set-list. Highlights include a 12-minute rendition of "Echoes."

Tokyo, Japan - March 3, 1988 - A well shot video from the middle of the left mezzanine at Budo Khan Hall.

Philadelphia, PA - May 15, 1988 - While the camera didn't have a zoom lens the operator was close enough to the stage to provide a solid view of the entire stage set.

Monza, Italy - May 20, 1989 - Shot from the floor, the video is crystal clear. Though only 48 minutes long, the video also includes a couple of seconds of footage of Gilmour and Scott Page in the hotel lobby and a few seconds of a soundcheck.

Hamburg, Germany - June 16, 1989 - This video is probably the closest to the front of the stage. This video is also incomplete - the 1st set at 66 minutes.

The band decided to professionally film some shows and use certain songs as live music videos. "On The Turning Away," "Dogs Of War" and "One Slip" were taken from footage shot at Atlanta's Omni on November 4-5, 1987, but quite a few more songs were filmed and edited. There was a tape in circulation that included two versions of "Dogs Of War," "Run Like Hell," "Time," "On The Run," "Comfortably Numb," "Learning To Fly," "Shine On" and the first 54 seconds of "Yet Another Movie."

The band was not at all thrilled with the footage shot, arguing that it didn't capture the essence and feeling of the live shows. The cameras certainly did not flatter Gilmour, whose striped shirt drew as much attention to his girth as it did his guitar playing. Most of the shots were static (no moving camera) and the editing lacked a free-flowing rhythm. The aerial-cam shots were interesting, but added little to the overall videos. All but the three songs mentioned were eventually scrapped and some changes were made when the Nassau Coliseum shows (August 19-23, 1988) were filmed at the end of the US leg of the tour.

The Delicate Sound of Thunder was released on June 5, 1989 in the U.K.. With new director Wayne Isham at the helm, the filmed footage was slick, glossy, and was captured by more than a dozen cameras which seemed to be ALWAYS moving. There isn't one cut in the entire film either! Instead, shots segue from one to the other in a series of slow dissolves, adding the dream-like flow to the concert that the band was hoping to capture.

The next pro-shot video came from the Venice show July 15, 1989. Offered as a pay-per-view to most of Europe, this video became a sought after tape by US fans who were not privy to the broadcast. Pink Floyd performed on a specially constructed stage which floated on a platform in the Grand Canal. The audience could either watch the spectacle from the shore or from boats that were anchored on the water near by. With all the trouble they went through to pull this event off, you would think that they'd play longer than an abbreviated 93 minute set, which lopped off the better part of "Shine On."

On June 30, 1990, Pink Floyd reconvened for the Knebworth show, a charity gig for the Nordof Robbins Foundation. This was another short set, with another less-than-inspiring performance. Candy Dulfer made a guest appearance, blowing an unimpressive sax solo during "Shine On", and Claire Torry reprised her original, and now famous, soulful vocal stylings for "Great Gig In The Sky." Unfortunately she apparently was having a bad night as her off-key delivery sounded like she was sucking on a lemon. Where the whole set was broadcast by the Westwood One Network, MTV showed most of the gig, only cutting out a few songs for commercials.

The Division Bell tour, from the opening show in Miami, Florida on March 30, 1994 to the final show at Earls Court, London, October 29, 1994, was also well documented by home video. Where the previous tour did not deviate from its well-rehearsed set-list (apart from the early departure of "Echoes" being replaced by "Shine On,") The Division Bell tour had some surprises. The audience could see "Poles Apart," "A Great Day For Freedom" or even "Lost For Words" (on two occasions) and "One Slip" (on one occasion) depending on what the band had planned for each night. The addition of "Marooned" as an encore at the two shows in Oslo, Norway (August 29-30) was surely a highlight. Backdropped by a film of whales in poetic motion, the band performed superb renditions of their Grammy Award winning instrumental. As many as seven camcorder videos have surfaced from these two nights in Oslo.

But the biggest surprise was when the band added their groundbreaking epic, Dark Side of the Moon, in its entirety for the show's second set at the Pontiac Silverdome in Detroit, Michigan on July 15, 1994. The tour had pretty much wound up in North America, and the band decided to debut it during the last three stops on the continent. Needless to say, this show became one that was much desired by video collectors, especially the Americans who were anxious to see what they missed.

Few videos from these three American Dark Side of the Moon shows have surfaced. Only the first three songs from the July 15, 1994 setlist were caught on tape--the second set either was never filmed or was never circulated. There is no video from the show that followed, the first of two nights at Giants Stadium in East Rutherford, New Jersey, July 17, 1994.

However, three camcorder videos are in circulation from the final night, July 18, 1994. First, the complete show, 139 minutes, was shot from the upper deck of Giants Stadium slightly left of center. A second video is incomplete, 119 minutes, shot from the upper left side looking down on the stage. The video includes the complete Dark Side of the Moon set. The third video was made up of excerpts, and only 4:52 of the 42 minutes comes from the Dark Side of the Moon performance. This video was shot on the floor towards the right.

Other noteworthy camcorder videos to surface from the tour include -

San Diego, CA - April 14, 1994 - Shot from 20 rows back, this video provides a nice shot of the complete stage with excellent close-ups.

Oakland, CA - April 21, 1994- Shot from the 6th row. Though the video is obstructed at times, there are exceptional close-ups.

Yankee Stadium, New York - June 10, 1994 - Shot from the upper deck in centerfield with a tripod, this video does the best job of capturing the entire stage. The close-ups of the back projection screen are superb as the camera gets 'inside' the screen.

Kansas City, MO - June 20, 1994 - Shot on a tripod from the left side of the stage, the video is exceptionally clear.

Rotterdam, Holland - September 3-5, 1994 - This video is compiled from three nights in Rotterdam, two cameras at each show--quality footage from all angles.

When Pink Floyd wrapped up the tour with 14 shows at Earl's Court, London, they offered a live pay-per-view of the October 20, 1994 performance. Released as PULSE on June 6, 1995, many fans preferred the "warts and all" pay-per-view version, criticizing the overdubs and glossy production.

The only pro-shot footage that turned up that wasn't released was the footage from Foxboro, MA in May 1994. Just one song from this footage saw the light of day--"Keep Talking," which was shown briefly on MTV on July 28, 1994 as a music video.

No one can be certain if or when the band will ever tour again, but you can be sure that you'll more than likely be able to view any gig in the comfort of your own home. I'll also bet that the same annoying asshole will be sitting two seats in front of the camcorder, shouting and blocking the view of the camera as well. ; )

Ron Fleischer and Richard Mahon are staff writers for Spare Bricks.

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